Homeless in Arizona

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It's pretty easy to debate people that support the MPP or Marijuana Policy Project initiative in Arizona and win.

They rarely respond with facts to your arguments. Usually they just respond with lies or insults.

Their main lie, is that if you don't support the MPP initiative is that you are a "prohibitionist" who want's to keep marijuana illegal.

In this thread I talked with Dave Inman and Michael Pahle about the MPP initiative.

Dave Inman started out the thread by implying that anyone who doesn't support the MPP initiate is a prohibitionist who should be banned from the Phoenix NORML group.

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Dave Inman created a poll.

Dave Inman [lies] Should prohibitionist be allowed in this group

Micky Jones Should people that don't support MPP be banned from this group.

Michael Pahle [name calling] Should Micky Jones be forced to wear shoes and get a job

Mickey Jones You have to define what a "prohibitionist" is. Just because a large number of us think the phoney baloney MPP initiative to legalize marijuana sucks doesn't mean we are "prohibitionists".

Mickey Jones I think what you really want to do Dave Inman is ban anybody from this group that doesn't support the phoney baloney MPP initiative to legalize marijuana.

Mickey Jones And I thought that per the rules of national NORML, the NORML groups were not supposed to do that. I.e. take sides in the issue of weather the MPP initiative sucks as may of us think it does, or as Kathy & Dave seem to think the the MPP initiative is the best thing since sliced bread.

Mickey Jones When JP Holyoak spoke at ASU he actually admitted that he would prefer to have the RAD or Relegalize All Drugs initiative pass. But then he said he didn't think the voters would pass it. Personally I think he said that, not because the RAD initiative wouldn't pass, but because he wants to become a billionaire when the MPP initiative gives him a monopoly on selling recreational marijuana.

Michael Pahle I think you will find that a majority of Voters will also think this initiative is as cool as sliced bread.

Michael Pahle [lies/insults] Nobody is buying the alarmistic tirade you are trying to sell on every cannabis Corner in Arizona.

Mickey Jones In my experience collecting signatures for the AZfrm initiative many people where mad as hell when they found out they signed an MPP initiative and found out what is inside the initiative.

Dave Inman [insults] Just tired of your drivel Mickey... we have our moment to move forward, and I'll be damned if you get free advertising for your nonsense

Mickey Jones I think what you are saying is you would prefer the voters to now know the facts, so they don't shoot down the MPP initiative.

Mickey Jones And if you debate the MPP initiative vs the AZfrm initiative it loses badly. And if you debate the MPP initiative vs the RAD initiative it sucks the big one.

Mickey Jones As I said before JP Holyoak said he would prefer a RAD like initiative when he spoke at a Libertarian group at ASU. I thought JP Holyoak was one of the leaders behind the MPP initiative.

Mickey Jones Of course JP Holyoak has a financial interest in shooting down both the RAD initiative and the AZfrm initiative because true legalization of marijuana won't make him any money.

Mickey Jones Also many people refused to sign the AZfrm petitions until we assured them that it was NOT the MPP initiative.

Michael Pahle Azfrm? We talking about a third initiative?

Mickey Jones And while Kathy and Dave seem to love Prop 203 which was written by MPP, Prop 203 is pretty well hated by the marijuana community. Prop 203 pretty much screws sick patients who need lots of marijuana. Of course Prop 203 was not written to help sick patients. Prop 203 was written to make the owners of the dispensaries wealthy.

Michael Pahle [insults] You sir, are clueless. To tell me medical access to cannabis is worse now than before sickens me immensely. No... prop 203 is not hated.

Mickey Jones According the DHS statistics only one third of the people with medical marijuana cards buy their weed legally from the dispensaries. The other two thirds either buy it illegally on the black market or illegally grow it.

Mickey Jones And remember because of the evil 25 mile rule, according to DHS, only about 3 percent of the people with medical marijuana cards are out side of the 25 mile limit and can legally grow their own medical marijuana.

Michael Pahle [lies/insults] I have zero interest in educating a prohibitionist like yourself.

Mickey Jones Why did the greedy bastards at MPP put the 25 mile rule in Prop 203? Probably because they wanted to force sick patients to buy their over priced $300 an ounce rip off marijuana. Let's face it Prop 203 is all about $$$ MONEY $$$, not helping sick people.

Michael Pahle [insults] Actually Andrew put it in there to prevent a direct opposition by law enforcement, you silly kid. THOU ART Clueless... as I have always claimed.

Michael Pahle Lots of dispos are at 180, genius

Mickey Jones Michael Pahle - Yea, if you believe that I have some land to sell you in Florida.

Michael Pahle Can i take you to some? Perhaps you wouldn't freak so badly.

Dave Inman [insults] #evil

Michael Pahle [insults] The only words that come to mind when attempting to engage in a discourse with you is, "shut your garbage hole f%#! $ " but that would simply be rude.

Mickey Jones That's because you don't want the facts to come out. MPP is all about $$$ MONEY $$$. Not ending the draconian marijuana laws. Or helping sick people buy low cost marijuana. MPP is about making people rich by forcing them to buy their $300 an ounce rip off weed at the point of a government gun.

Michael Pahle You don't know me or anything I am doing to assist patients.

Mickey Jones Well sadly if you can't use logic and reason to prove your position is better you are going to resort to calling them names. Or if you can't dazzle em with brilliance, then baffle them with BS.

Michael Pahle [insults/lies] I am so totally sick of your insanity on here. Been 2 years of disgusting mistruths. Ewww

Mickey Jones That's not true. Almost all the lies and misinformation are coming from the folks that support MPP.

Michael Pahle [lies/insults] And you argue like a 5 year old. If I hear the words evil monopolistic draconian phony baloney greedy again I think I will become physically nauseous.

Mickey Jones Michael Pahle - It think the reason you hate it, is because it is true. And because we hope to use it to shoot down the MPP initiative in flames. Like the voters in Ohio did to that investor driven initiative.

Michael Pahle Hope doesnt equal results, ask jason m, dave w, etc. Etc.

Mickey Jones In all this talk between Michael Pahle and Dave Inman not once have either of you denies that the MPP initiative is all about $$$ MONEY $$$.

Michael Pahle Money enters into every facet of EVERYTHING, why is this any different.

Michael Pahle And Im done with you now... dismissed.

Mickey Jones Michael Pahle - If MPP was selling potatoes, they would have a monopoly that allows them to sell potatoes for $4,800 a pound, not 10 cents a pound. I don't want to buy anything from a monopoly or cartel created by MPP. I prefer the free market. And that's why I'm going to do the best I can to shoot down the MPP initiative.

Michael Pahle Put in the same effort as was done with safer, and MPP is sure to fly. Thanks for being on their team.